Re: God's existance ( I aprove it )

by **DeoX** Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:43 pm

DieOrFail wrote:

The laws of Physic.. who created them?
Why are is there a force like gravity?
Why can humans think, and animals not?
Why do we think we have a soul?

1. Noone created them. Substances interact each other in different ways. It's like asking "who created math?" and "why 2+2=4?".
2. Mass creates gravity.
3. Animals may think more than humans.
4. Because religious people have to invent ways to explain things. A human body is a bunch of cooperative cells which try to fight for survival. Nothing more.

by **Rumo** Thu 10 Jun 2010, 11:56 pm

Rumo wrote:
And one thing I would like to hear is the fact, that terrible things happen. Teribble things at people who aren ot guilty, kids who die of hunger, natural catastrophes etc.
How can you belive in such a God, if he would be that mighty, he could make these things never happen, couldn´t he?

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 1:43 am

@ DeoX: WHY create mass gravity? But I think we can't answer this question yet... maybe in the future...

@ Rumo: Yes, he could. But why should he? If a beautiful thing happens in your life, you don't think about god. If a terrible thing happens, you say: Why? Why can't god let this be done?
Maybe because he said, all humans have a choice. All humans can choose, what ever they want to do. This terrible things are a result of a wrong decision of a human.
He could make these things never happen, but then he broke his word, because we have no free choice then.

(I'm only 16 years old, and don't know much about this theme, ask a pastor if you want to know more about this)

by **Adam Shootyperson** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 1:46 am

This convo can go on forever. Every one has his beliefs, I chose to believe God.

How can poor people get computers, for example ? I know it's a random and weird example, but...yeh!

How can a plane accident kill everyone except a 3 year old kid...

by **Tushaar** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 1:49 am

Adam Shootyperson wrote:This convo can go on forever. Every one has his beliefs, I chose to believe God.

How can poor people get computers, for example ? I know it's a random and weird example, but...yeh!

How can a plane accident kill everyone except a 3 year old kid...

Luck, just like you can kill shagroth Wink

by **Adam Shootyperson** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 2:16 am

No, it's not the same. If a person next to the 3 year old kid died too, it means it she wasn't somewhere will less impact.

And a baby is fragile, couldn't survive =/

by **DeoX** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 2:36 am

Adam Shootyperson wrote:No, it's not the same. If a person next to the 3 year old kid died too, it means it she wasn't somewhere will less impact.

And a baby is fragile, couldn't survive =/

A baby is smaller than an adult.

It's a common mistake to belive that something is a miracle just because it had a very low chance to happen.

by **Adam Shootyperson** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 2:38 am

It's a miracle for me.
Can you see any more explanation ?

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 3:39 am

Like I said before, you can't proof it.
Everyone has his beliefs.

by **Rumo** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:07 am

DieOrFail wrote:

@ Rumo: Yes, he could. But why should he? If a beautiful thing happens in your life, you don't think about god. If a terrible thing happens, you say: Why? Why can't god let this be done?
Maybe because he said, all humans have a choice. All humans can choose, what ever they want to do. This terrible things are a result of a wrong decision of a human.
He could make these things never happen, but then he broke his word, because we have no free choice then.

African children have a choice?

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:13 am

No, but the one who killed them had a choice...
And, if you believe in god, you know that the little child will have it much better, when it's in heaven^^

by **DeoX** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:34 am

If I had to belive in something it would be Valhalla. Where's your god now when Odin bangs his hammer?

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:48 am

DeoX wrote:If I had to belive in something it would be Valhalla. Where's your god now when Odin bangs his hammer?

Hmm, so you believe in nothing?
Well, there is no problem as long as you don't insult those believing in something ;D

Valhalla... I don't know much about the nordic mythology, but it sounds funny ;D

by **Adam Shootyperson** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:55 am

Stick to the Christian God Smile

He, only He, performs miracles. I still believe, though, that in some years from now people will have an exact proof of God's existance.

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 4:59 am

I don't think so, Adam. Then you are forced to believe in him, you have no free choice anymore... And of course I will stick to the Christian God ;D

by **Adam Shootyperson** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:04 am

No, that's not what I meant. I said that one day we will have a REAL proof for Atheists, that God exists.

Like the proof that fire burns.

by **DeoX** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:06 am

The God that created the world can be Odin, Allah, Thor, Zeus or Christian God. You can't deny that.

by **DieOrFail** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 5:10 am

Yep, and that's what believing is about. You don't know it. You have the free choice to believe.
And Adam, I understand you, but this proof will only be there, if the world dies, and everyone had his choice...

by **Hunt3r** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 8:32 am

Yeah, my favourite topic so far.
I'm an atheist and i live a normal and happy life as an atheist, yet still some people see me as a freak. (Search on youtube George Carlin - Religion is bullshit). Sorry to offend anyone, but thats a intelligent stand-up comedy.
Everything in this live is cause-effect, watch the butterfly effect and final destination series. It seems supernatural, but it let you see that every move you make, any word, action, gesture, whatever can change the world the way it is, less or more.
I strongly belive that there is no god since no real spiritual intereference and logical explanation for creationist theory. Besides, there are many religions and gods around,so who can tell me who's the real one and why.
Imho religion was and will allways be a manipulation tool. It's considered right by the majority, false by the wise ones, and useful by the power. Why those crusades "in the name of god"? Why the "holy war"?

Another theory. Lets thake Christianity. Heaven and Hell, God and Satan.Good and evil.
It's supposed that if you are a sinner, you dont belive in God, in the afterlife you are goin to hell where Satan is going to torture you, and make you suffer. Allright, i consider Satan as a "evil inteligent God". So, why Satan would punish the ones that followed his will and denied God? That doesnt make any sense. Satan would torture the souls of good people, because its evil. That means he's god's right hand and god's not so fair afterall=> all cracks down.
Think about it, it's logical and obvious. Comment.

by **TNaismith** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 9:13 am

Extremely Important Warning

I would like to warn everyone that this is now officially a dangerous topic because we are getting into a serious discussion about religion.

I have seen many internet forums become destroyed because of people with strong religious views discussing with each other, eventually going into a debate, then eventually becoming an all-out flamewar. (In the extreme case.)

I do NOT want any discussion about religion to cause any splits between TH. If you are going to participate in this topic, please remember to be RESPECTFUL, MINDFUL, and FRIENDLY of other people's opinions.

If some of you find out during this discussion that other members of the clan do believe in god, or have strong reasons to NOT believe in god -- that does NOT make them automatically evil people.

Please remember that no matter what you believe in, showing kindness, compassion, respect, friendly spirits, friendly attitude, being nice, being understanding, polite, and tolerating of other people's views can be done by EVERYONE. No matter if you believe in god or not.

That, is a religion I strongly believe in for sure.

So please show respect, and understanding of each other's views in this topic, or any topic relating to religion for that matter -- no matter who you are. I will let you guys discuss and converse about it, but at the first sign of any flaming, hate posts, disrespectful behaviors I will take swift action -- whether anyone likes it or not.

Thank you. Carry on.
~ TNaismith

by **Envy** Fri 11 Jun 2010, 10:56 am

I, an Atheist like Hunter, believe that there is no god for the following reasons.

A, I love math and science. Somehow, the related patterns of math are more convincing in telling me that their is no god, or in the science, the way how everything is together and related, in a sort if enormous family of organisms and matter. I think thye convince me, for good or worse.

B, I was raised by an Atheist family. My parents raised me in no presence of any god that they or I know of.

C, If there was a god, why wouldn't he make everything happy, or I should say more things happy. There is obviously no balance between good and evil, though from my point of view many believe that the human soul and it's social ways are an endless source of hope and goodness.

This is an interesting subject, and I am happy it has been raised, though I hope we all know it is an endless argument.

by **DieOrFail** Sat 12 Jun 2010, 3:16 am

This is great Smile

I finally found someone who is a real atheist! Most people around me are just those who say they don't believe in god, but they are no real atheists. Thats worse, because they don't know what they want, you can't discuss in a good way with them, because they start flaming a say stupid things to me Wink

Where I live, most young people don't believe in god, but they aren't atheists either...

TNaismith, I know what can happen, if we discuss about religion, I've made a lot of bad experience in real life, because there are many people who don't respect those who believe.
(Like me Sad

)

@ ENVY: I love math and science, too. I think I will study something in this direction, that's sure. And I don't understand why you think we can't 'believe' in both?
In my opinion, god created the laws of physic.
To C: Hmm, read my post before, but it's difficult for me to explain it in English, sorry :/

@ Hunt3r: I will watch the things you mentioned, and I will think about your words Smile

by **Adam Shootyperson** Sat 12 Jun 2010, 3:17 am

@ DeoX :

I can deny that. Allah is just " God " in Arab. It's like saying God, but that's the word for the Arabs.
It's like your saying " Deus " is a different God. It's just how we say it in Portuguese.

I don't know much about the other Gods, but I'm pretty sure they all mean God in they're language.

Besides, you have a good point there, Hunt3r. But for me, Hell and Satan are just things made up by Christians. Like, there can be a Hell and a Satan, I believe in it.
People just make up those things about torturing so people don't sinning because they're afraid.

That's pretty much how I see it.

Btw : Yeah, Hunt3r, this is a good topic ^^ I like it.

Don't worry TNaismith, I don't think anyone will argue. At least I won't. I'm just trying to tell others my opinion. But not fighting ^.^

by **DieOrFail** Sat 12 Jun 2010, 3:25 am

Adam Shootyperson wrote:

Btw : Yeah, Hunt3r, this is a good topic ^^ I like it.

Don't worry TNaismith, I don't think anyone will argue. At least I won't. I'm just trying to tell others my opinion. But not fighting ^.^

/sign

Hm, but Adam, I see a difference between the other 'gods'. But you can see this difference only looking at the 'extremes', at the fanatics. Those understand the main point of religion wrong, at least in my opinion.

by **Adam Shootyperson** Sat 12 Jun 2010, 3:38 am

Nah. It's a fact? Allah is just God. But in Arabic.

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