God's existance ( I aprove it )

Nope, Allah is a god with really different 'goals' than Jahwe.

Hey guys

Everyone is free to believe in what they want..I believe in science and in lucky (in my case,im not a lucky person xD).

I think people need to believe in something to carry on with their lives and to explain some situations (which we call miracles).For me,religion is like an crutch..you need one to explain what science cant explain..

Where,in Portugal,priests have big houses and nice cars (Mercedes and Bmw)..they all say that we should help the poor people..etc etc..BUT they ask for money and dont pay taxes..The people who donate for church are the poor ones..If you watch the video i post before (zeitgeist), in the begining, they explain better than me what in trying to say.



PS:Sorry but if i talk in my language would be much easier to express myself :s

PS2: Its only my opinion,i dont want to change anyone opinion or offend any religion/belief.

DieOrFail wrote:Nope, Allah is a god with really different 'goals' than Jahwe.

Wrong. Allah = God.


How do you say God in german ? Gott ?


Allah = God same thing as Gott = God


It's just another name for the same thing.

Nope, believe me, Adam. There is a religion called Islam, and one called Christianity.
(Hope the english names are right^^) These two religions are not the same..

Religions are different. Beliefs are different. God is the same. Just has another name.

Hm, now I understand what you want to say.^^
Don't know if I can approve it, but I get it

Ah,lol =)

Well, there is no right or wrong I guess. It's an opinion. We share the same belief : God.

Anyways, I was thinkign about it. I believe in Karma, but I also believe that karma is controlled by God. What do you think, DoF ? ^^

Hmm... I' not sure about this thing, it's a bit tricky ;D

My opinion is, that we are all too bad for heaven, our sins are too big. The only way to god is to try your best. To help others, where you can. Be friendly and nice to all. Love your friends.
But love your enemy, too! Respect all human beings, respect life. Respect the life god gave you, and try to do something good with it.
Yes, our sins are bigger than the mountains, but if we give our best, if we show that we are willing to learn, then we're on the right way.
But nevertheless, the last gate is Jesus Christ. He's the one forgiving us our sins, if we want.
If we show our tries to him, if we really try something good, and if we really want his love, he will give it to us. And it's never too late


I hope I could express my feelings in the right way^^

I just think they are two different things, M/S and god. Why would God create all this logic in this world and make it so complicated, yet amazing?

Okay, before I start. This is a big topic i'm talking about. So, bare with me. I might fail at explaining this, but I will try my best to bring to light what my religion believes. PLEASE READ ALL OF THIS THROUGH.

We are all God's children. In the premortal life, we were all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. He had a plan for us. This plan was to send us to Earth and to live our lives to the best of our ability. We would still have our free agency to choose right or wrong, so we could and would make mistakes and sin.

He needed someone to help him fulfill this plan. So, Lucifer offered to do it. He said he will force everyone to make the right choices and the glory be his. Jesus Christ then said I will go, let the glory be thine. God chose Jesus.

Lucifer was furious. He started a war against God. 1/3 of all God's children sided with Satan. Satan and those that followed him lost and they were cast out into "Hell."

Now, Satan and his angels had an eternal hatred against the other 2/3 that stayed on God and Jesus' side, because they knew what they had done. They had ended all chance of EVER having a physical body. They were stuck as spirits forever. The only way to ease this hatred and eternal sadness was to cause pain in those living on Earth. Thus, they tempt us. Sometimes we resist the temptation, sometimes we give-in and sin. This causes ultimate pleasure in them.

Skipping the earth's creation and moving onto the end of Jesus' life.

At the end of Jesus' life, he spent a night in the Garden of Gethsemene. This is where he atoned for our sins. Because of this, we were then able to repent of our sins. Later, He was crucified, and He was resurrected 3 days later. These two things were absolutely essential for God's plan to work.
1.(Atonement)-Allows us to repent of our sins and become perfect, or "clean", like God and Jesus.
2.(Resurrection)-After Jesus was resurrected, it opened the gate for all to be resurrected, this being part of God's plan.

So, we live our lives to the best that we can, and then we die. We enter into the Spirit World to await our judgement. After Jesus' second coming, we are all resurrected, judged, and sent to one of the three degrees of glory. The New Testament likens these to; the stars, the moon, the sun (good, better, best; in a sense). The higher the degree of glory, the more of God's glory you are living in.

The following is a rough explanation of what each Kingdom will be like.

Good=Earth. This place will be an enhanced Earth. (without the death)
Better= A place where those that have lived there lives well, but didn't fulfill all the requirements to get to Best.
Best= You will live forever in the presence of God and Jesus Christ. You feel his eternal love and glory.

Now, Please understand this: Every degree of Glory is Heaven. Mother Theresa is probably going to get a higher degree than Joe Bob down the street who could care less about anybody else.

Hey ppl, I just want to say that in my opinion, nobody can convince or prove you there is a god. Its about your point of view and not physical proofs etc. You can see world as a serie of physical rules which works for itself and in beggining it just appeared somewhere in space. This is what I wanted about the proofs... Every single proof of existence god can be reversed and can prove there is no god in real.
And my opinion - I think there is god, because if he wasnt (by god I mean some kind of positive energy which is the strongest and wisest than every single being here on earth), world wouldnt have balance, world would have wars until now and world will not exist. See? Its proof of gods existence but also you can say it proves he doesnt exist... If he doesnt exist, people would know that they got to live in peace to have and live in nice world... Truth is somewhere between. Good cant exist without evil, if god would destroy everything evil, life would lose meaning, you would just go to work and get back to home with pockets full of money... This will grow into next wave of evil, jealousy and next... This is also proved but its not some poor (in this case really poor) physical proof, but its old wisdom which in my opinion really works... If there was no evil, there would be no good, if there was no not-knowing, there wouldnt be any knowledge too...
Maybe hard to understand for someone, but I hope its not.

This is only MY point of view, I would like to see your comments, but I dont force everyone to start thinking in my way (I gotta write this after every religion related post )

Nice explanation, Rostner!

As long as you believe in God, like me, I thin, you can always say He exists, and not say you THINK he exists.
Because when I started this topic, I wanted people to understand that I don't think that God exists. I KNOW it.

Heh, again. Nice explanation, Rostner! Good point DoF and that was interesting to hear, paco

Sorry but this thing with "I KNOW IT" it's wrong. We are in 2010 and from what i know, in the justice system you can't get away with murder because someone knows you "are innocent". It's a matter of proofs, they have them, they imprison you. Faith wont defeat evidence, never.

And look around, most of people belive in something, more or less. Now remember when a wise guy named Galileo Galiei existed. He prooved that Earth is round, and we are not in the center of the Universe. People and the church were like "no, fuck you, you are totaly wrong", because they knew otherwise for like 16 centuries. Guess what, he was right and therefore we know now the truth. Mass manipulation, thats all.

I look foward to the day when sience will break down religion. It's preety obvious that if X says, hey theres a chiprel, to decide if thats true or not, the first thing you do, it's checking if it's really there. And you cant agree that the chiprel is there, if it's not. So with god.

Speaking about the divine plan. God knows everything that will happen, everything you gonna need or ask. So whats the point of praying? Doesnt god allready figured out that if you suffer from a dissease you might want to cure? Why praying? So just fill his ego with prayers so he will help you? If he is that intelligent he should judge people by their actions, not their believes. So, if im an atheist and i still do normal things, if god exists in the end, well he should send me to heaven.

Please comment, and also regarding the Satan issue i stated before. I really want to know your opinion on those.

That thing about Galilei
He KNEW the Earth was round, yet it's not 100% round. And a crime is not the same thing as religion. Religion has faith, crime doesn't. I can't really explain myself...whateva.

Hm, Hunt3r, I have to agree with you, there exists NO proof. It's impossible to proof that there is a god. That's the difference between 'know' and 'believe'. I don't if there is a god. But I believe it. And if I believe it strong enough, I have the feeling that I know it.
I think that's what Adam meant as he said he know that there is a god.

And it's right, the church manipulated nearly the whole world. That's why I don't like the catholic believes. They are way too old 'wrong' in my opinion.

The point of praying is, only in my opinion of course, that you 'talk' with god.
You need a relationship to him, and the best way to do this, is praying. Also it helps yourself, even if there would be no god. It's like a diary. You reflect all the things you may need, you think about all this again. And maybe you notice that your wishes are crap.

I haven't thought about this issue you talked about before, and it's really interesting
But Rostner's point is good, and I will ask a few people who know more about this than I know^^

Well, as time progresses, there are more proof coming about science and NO proof at all for god. Lets look at the statistics!

DieOrFail wrote:
The point of praying is, only in my opinion of course, that you 'talk' with god.
You need a relationship to him, and the best way to do this, is praying. Also it helps yourself, even if there would be no god. It's like a diary. You reflect all the things you may need, you think about all this again. And maybe you notice that your wishes are crap.

It works like placebo effect.

More pictures:

That graph is a fake. Since I'm a believer, I could just make the Christian Dark Ages very big.

Hmm, you are partly right. The period, where the catholic church had all the power, was a 'dark' one. But this graph is... really ignorant and vague. What's with the letterpress?
One of the most important invention for our daily life.

And if you don't believe in god, praying is just a placebo, yes. But it WORKS. At least, it helps me, and that's the only thing that counts (for me) =)

Yep, there is no proof for god. But there is no proof against god, too.
Tell me the physical law proofing god's absence.

Finally, I want to say, god is important for me, and my belief helped me a lot in my life.
(I think god helped me, but maybe it was just placebo)
The bible told me the right values, like: 'Love your enemy' and lots of other, great values.
You can say, god doesn't exist. But you can't say he told us stupid, useless things.

Adam Shootyperson wrote:That graph is a fake. Since I'm a believer, I could just make the Christian Dark Ages very big.

Did you read the Y-axis?

DieOrFail wrote:
And if you don't believe in god, praying is just a placebo, yes. But it WORKS. At least, it helps me, and that's the only thing that counts (for me) =)

Why can't you belive in yourself? You can do whatever you want even if it feels impossible if you know that you can make it, plus it makes more sense.

DieOrFail wrote:
The bible told me the right values, like: 'Love your enemy' and lots of other, great values.

I know the bible has good guidelines for life but the same can be written in any other peace-loving book.

DieOrFail wrote:And if you don't believe in god, praying is just a placebo, yes. But it WORKS. At least, it helps me, and that's the only thing that counts (for me) =)

People are comparing placebos with prayers. Yet placebos work

Lol, I could make that up too, DeoX xD

Adam Shootyperson wrote:
People are comparing placebos with prayers. Yet placebos work

Lol, I could make that up too, DeoX xD

At least I don't speak to walls.

This is honestly going nowhere. You guys should stop this fighting. And don't say you aren't fighting, either. This may be friendly arguing now, but it IS going somewhere.

DeoX wrote:

Adam Shootyperson wrote:
People are comparing placebos with prayers. Yet placebos work

Lol, I could make that up too, DeoX xD

At least I don't speak to walls.

That was kind of insultive. I never insulted you, don't know why you did.
Maybe it's because you have no Sun in Finland ^^
I heard you can't live without the SUn. It has vitamins you can't get anywhere else.


Anyways... yeah... Don't need to insult
Was just saying that I too, can make a graph like that

Yep, Rostner, you are right! Let's stop this, even if it was a nice discussion
Thank you all!